Dayna Neumann with United Dynamics Solutions Transcript

[Royce Hall]

Dayna, it's great to have you today. Dayna Neumann is the Chief Sales and Marketing Officer at United Direct Solutions. So great to have you on the show.

[Dayna Neumann]

Thanks, Royce. Great to be here. Yeah.

[Royce Hall]

Well, Dayna, you know, one of the things I noticed, you know, from your LinkedIn profile, you've been in sales, marketing, operations for a long time. And, you know, I just think, you know, we think about RevOps. There's a lot of conversation about RevOps these days.

I mean, you've been in RevOps before people were calling you RevOps. So I'd love to hear kind of like your origin story. How'd you get into that?

And yeah, like what you've learned along the way.

[Dayna Neumann]

Sure, absolutely. I could talk about RevOps and revenue generating activities all day every day as we were talking about prior to getting started. And for me, the joy of growing and building started right after undergrad when I was considering where would I put where would I put my time and the talents that I had developed to that point, right?

And who was going to invest in me and help me to grow in those skills and those talents. And I was fortunate to matriculate in 1998, which was right between some various downturns that the economy had been facing. So I was at a I was very fortunate to graduate at a boom time.

So I had quite a few offers. And for me, what really resonated was organizations that were willing to invest in me and my training. And so I got to try on all different kinds of departments and processes when I joined Quad Graphics in 1998, because Harry Quadracci, who founded the company, believed in that.

And so he had a very robust executive training program that I was a part of a and so from jump, I was participating in the the education of growth and with that understanding operationally the entire enterprise. And so I've kept that as part of the way that I operate in various organizations, whether I'm volunteering my time on a board or advising startups or in the work that I do today at United Direct Solutions, which is very much so RevOps, as you said. And so for RevOps, especially in a world like ours that has a manufactured element, right?

We have print and mail, but we would consider our legacy business that we've been doing for a long, long time. And we couple that with marketing operations, automation, technology, data modeling and data analytics, all of that front end and then wraparound back end services to help customers understand who their best clients are, help them find more of them and then give them the right communication at the right time to inspire action. And whether that's existing customers and you want to build wallet share and make sure that they are educated in what's going on with with their interactions with you or, again, like looking for your next best customers, we do all of that.

And so making sure that operations and revenue generating activities are perfectly aligned or as aligned as they could possibly be is really the linchpin for how we make sure that things are running smoothly and turning around with common access.

[Royce Hall]

That's really interesting. I think it's really interesting you called out that, you know, with United Direct, you know, that's that's direct mail solutions, right? That's what we do.

Yeah, so that's not like that's not, you know, your AI, like that didn't, you know, pop up. That's a mature business. So one of the things I was thinking about was like, how do you stay, you know, how do you stay competitive and how do you like stay differentiated and forward thinking in the business that's, you know, matured and like, you know, I think a lot of like, a lot of people that I talked to her like, hey, it's email is social, like, that's how you get clients.

Right. And like, you know, direct mail, that's like, oh, I have we have we thought about that for a bit, you know, Yes, for us, it's, it's a couple of things.

[Dayna Neumann]

It's, it's being output agnostic. It is also back to that learning and that learning ethos, we never stop learning around here, the minute you stop learning, you stop growing, and you become stagnant, and that's dangerous. And so we have a mindset here at UDS and any company I've been a part of, if if it starts to shift to a rigidity of this is what we do, and we don't we are resistant to change, I know it's a time for me to move on or start something on my own.

And so UDS very much so has an all has today and has for the last 40 plus years of operation, a curiosity and a desire to understand both from our own work of attending conferences and participating in organizations and associations that our best customers are a part of. So we understand what's going on in their industry, in addition to knowing what's going on in the various industries that we're you know, that we're buying from right, think technology partners think manufactured, you know, OEMs. Where we're buying the equipment we need to do that legacy business and you know, sort of everybody in between because there's all of this integration and connective tissue that has to happen between the technology platforms and whatever output. Whether it stays in a digital state or is actually printed and mailed or both because most of our clients are utilizing omni-channel campaign structures.

And that's true of of existing business as well. Like where if it's a big brand because we're working with large brands that have that are primarily direct to consumer and so for us we have to understand the best ways for them to communicate with those customers. And that's changing all the time. And there's so much information. So we have to be very aware of at the end of the day we are the communication execution partners for our clients to their customers. We’re that connective tissue. So we have to be as strong as we possibly can and we must be nimble and flexible in order for that to happen in a really meaningful way because we're stewards of their budget. We're stewards of their brand and so we have to show up in those ways and be willing to maneuver as the markets shift and change. I mean just in the last quarter we've we're all global managing through a lot of shifts and shocks.

I'm not sure if they're all shocks just yet but they're definitely shifts at this point and we have to be nimble and flexible to market conditions to I mean we'd all lived through COVID five years ago thankfully and so yeah we have we have a desire to make sure that we are always at the cutting edge as close to the cutting edge as we possibly can be. Does that answer your question?

[Royce Hall]

Yeah I think that's a great answer and I think it brings up another question of like you know how have things changed. Like as you mentioned like the past five years have just been like a whirlwind you know what's going on now and you know you think about you referenced current events like you know we have the trade war with China and manufacturing. That's a really tough sector to be in right now so you know what is changing and you know how do we just like how do we stay on top of that instead of just being like folding up shop I'm done.

[Dayna Neumann]

Head in the sand is not an option not for people like me at least and I'm sure for people like you and your listeners, no way. So forward is the only way out and so for us. It's where can we fine-tune where can we be more efficient and and where can we make more sense of all this data because no one's going to have less data. We're never gonna we're never gonna sort of go back to a time where we're not collecting and gathering data. So for us it's very important that we understand how to synthesize the data that we control but also have tools and platforms available for our clients to make sense of their data or to take the data that they have you know synthesized on their own or that they've come to a certain point and then they can use us to help them fine-tune so that they're talking to the right people at the right time with the right message. And that they're able to be nimble and flexible as those messages need to shift and change.

So for us what that looks like in practice we have a Chief Information Officer, Chief Strategy Officer, Chief Sales and Marketing Officer and myself. The Chief Operating Officer, CFO, CEO we all are working together all the time on the big stuff the big visionary stuff. Then individually like in my department I'm looking to fine-tune for the sales team how can we put platforms in place for you that make you smarter and faster to respond. Because if you're able to utilize all that data that's flying around we can be in a better position to serve our clients faster with better information.

So some of the tools that we're using right now that are primarily AI you know in their nature. We use Gong as our recording partner and translator of meetings. Gong has been around for a very long time. They were one of the first and so they have a large language model that's just simply bigger than everybody else's and specifically designed for sales enablement. So it allows me to also be in a lot of places at the same time so I don't feel the need to add additional layers within the organization so again we can be very lean and also very effective. We don't want to be budget conscious and growth shy. We want them to coexist together and so utilizing platforms like Gong, or in your world CRM. We're about to upgrade our CRM so that we can have better connectivity to all of these other platforms. We're using Crystal Knows which is - are you familiar with Crystal Knows? So huge right - uses the DISC platform for us to have that we have integrations with LinkedIn and Outlook. It's providing you additional information based on data out in the world of how do you want to bring information to that person how do we think they will respond and better prepare ourselves so that we can accelerate the sales process and have better bigger deals.

Again, we can do more with the same amount of incredibly smart people and that's where technology comes into play for us so it's not about you know replacing people or whatever it's about making those investments that you already have produce more for you without stressing the system so much that everybody's burnt out because you know. In your world with CRM it's intended to ride along and enable the sales process to be smarter faster like more productive. For us that's the ones that we place on every decision is how can we support the sales team to do what they do with ease and with precision and with speed because boy the minute you put something in place like that everyone's like yeah it's not perceived as a threat, right. It's not perceived as, “oh someone's looking over my shoulder to nitpick my day with a CRM.” I'm sure you hear you've heard that many many times and it's it then once you do that and you involve teams in those decisions, now they have buy-in. And they are more likely to use it and to use it effectively and for everybody to benefit from that type of

[Royce Hall]

Implementation yeah I love that I at least in the B2B world you know maybe it's different in B2C where you know you can go to a website and and you know directly buy something. But you know in the B2B world I guess even in that use case you know until we have bots buying from bots like you know it's the person's got to be involved and I love that like how we're using AI like we are using AI to enhance people and to make them more powerful especially in those B2B roles. Make them more powerful in conversations. I love the Crystal Knows. Like you know you can get to know the person a little deeper before you ever talk to them and tailor your approach you know based on you know the perception of their personality. It just gives you a little more edge but it's all human centric it's all it's all personal centric. It's not just “hey I'm gonna make a bot so that you know it can go sell for me while I sleep.”

[Dayna Neumann]

Sure there's a place for that for us. Yes we're B2B we are very much so relationship oriented in the way that we sell and the way that we continue. I have this phrase, “land and expand.” That's very much so a part of our very sensitive data. Personal health and personal financial information - no one gives that over willingly or easily in the sense of there's lots of vetting there has to be a lot of trust built. For us, 100% that has to start in the very first interactions that you have with someone. And if something like Crystal Knows can help you to communicate the information that you were already going to communicate in a way that is received more trusting, or that is received in a way that that listener prefers to receive information, great. But it's the same information, to your point, you know there's no you know huckster changing things. It's simply how does that person receive information or at least give me 80% of the way that they'll probably receive the information and then you can adjust accordingly. And the same applies to our internal team. We use Crystal Knows internally as well so that we can also be better communicators internally with our teammates. If someone prefers, give me the details and give them to me right away. Ease up on the chitchat in the beginning but you may frustrate them and vice versa if you're a high-D person. Maybe ask someone about themselves prior to just throwing a bunch of details at them because that receiver may perceive it differently. So again we're seeing within the organization utilizing those kinds of tools is helping us to be a better communicating team within the organization which obviously accelerates processes all over the place. And frankly makes you really appreciate coming to work every day.

So culture, it's an incredibly important part of what we do around here. It is not so much managing culture but making sure that we are making decisions and utilizing tools and putting forth training and experiences that support the culture that we've built. And listening to employees to make sure that we're meeting their needs and that we're providing the right kind of environment for them to really accel and become their best version of themselves

[Royce Hall]

That's awesome yeah thanks well maybe maybe we can take a couple moments and just focus on a couple of things that you've kind of learned along your path. Like what are maybe two or three things that either like you wish you knew when you were younger or like you go back and tell you know your younger yourself. If you had a DeLorean where you could go you know do that or you know maybe somebody who's listening who's you know starting their you know career - what are some words of wisdom or aha moments that you've had.

[Dayna Neumann]

Along the way sure. Oh so many. Let's see - so as a as a late 40s female professional who has been on several leadership teams I can say with my whole heart that all of the all of the internal training that I did - meaning understanding how my brain works, understanding what emotional regulation is, understanding that perception is reality, understanding some of the what would be considered soft skills were not necessarily feminine. They were entirely human and at various points earlier in my career, especially working in and around manufacturing and almost always in what would be considered male-dominated industries, there was a stigma around some of that earlier in my career.

I would love to be able to nurture my younger self and say, “keep going keep.” You know because she did, but also resist the desire to fit in so much because people didn't look like you. They had different experiences and their priorities were slightly different than yours. Speak up and continue because today there's so much more awareness and acceptance of those types of what we would call soft skills, and a recognition that that kind of work is indeed what builds cultures. It is indeed what creates people's magnetism and their desire to work together, which is very much so sales. It is very much so influence. And I now have this mantra of, “everyone's in sales” because many many times as a younger person and being in sales and loving it you would hear from people who weren't in sales this kind of dismissive nature. Or salespeople just go to lunch you know. Salespeople are just flitting around with expense checks and going to parties and that they're somehow not a serious process or a lot of organizational structure to sales. I would I would internalize that too much as a younger person.

Then I realized later oh this is everybody's in sales, right? Everybody's selling something. You're selling an idea. You're selling your experience for that next job. You're pitching your business. Everyone is in sales at some point, and once I realized that I thought, “oh okay so people will say things,” but that's not the process of sales you understand. So now in this leadership position I feel a sense of duty to continue to educate the people around me - whether it's outside of my organization occasionally, or internally about the process of sales. There is very much so a process around as you well know in your CRM world. And helping to bring younger generations into that world is an incredibly rewarding career path. And I think that higher education and various other areas where people get their training would very much so benefit from more structured sales process training because again that's translatable to getting your first job. That's translatable to how do you influence people to move around in the corporation. And frankly how do you sell so that you can feed yourself and have an income. What does that look like or start your own business which I think is a really beautiful thing for people to think about.

[Royce Hall]

Yeah, that really hits a lot of nerves for me. I think of my own self and like I think what you shared is very similar to my own journey. I remember when I was in college I was very studious. Like you can see my bookcase over here and everything. I'm very very studious and I just focused on that and I'm like, “okay if I'm just making good grades and I'm writing and I'm being thoughtful and everything the rest is gonna work out.” I wasn't a partier and I definitely I kept to myself way too much. And I realized like once I started getting out into job force, what a disservice I had done to myself by not making those connections and just assuming academia itself is going to take care of me. And downplaying the human element in all this. I think of people who are trying to get into, whether that's sales or tech or they're trying to get their first job or their next job - we often look at ourselves like well I don't have all the qualifications that are on this job listing. There's a point where you can kind of ignore that it's like okay what influence do you have with the people that are there. Can you reach out and build a bond with the people that are part of the company that you want to be in. That are part of the industry that you want to be in, and build that rapport. Use those those soft skills that to propel you forward. That's how I've gotten multiple jobs

[Dayna Neumann]

Listen, if I'm the smartest person in the room I'm in the wrong room. So for me, that getting to a point where I recognized that the vulnerability of not having all the answers was indeed a path forward. If I understood and have the confidence in everything else you just said - I had invested in myself, I had been studious, I'm constantly aware of the newness of what's happening in the industries that we serve, and understanding cultural references, and years of being a citizen of the world was helpful and is helpful in building your confidence. And saying when you are in those leadership positions, or when you're on your way up asking questions, saying that is really interesting. Tell me more about that, and you don't have to already know about absolutely everything in order to be a leader

In fact I think the best leaders and the most endearing leaders who people really want to follow are the ones who continue to have curiosity and recognize that they are very very good at a lot of things but they're not experts at everything. If you hired people smarter than you in these various areas well, there's a recipe for success. Because you can listen to them you can learn and trust these people are incredibly smart in these areas and look at this we're all a big team of experts in different areas who also know how to talk to each other and respect each other's work. That is an area, a place that I think I know for me we've gotten there. It's never perfect. It's not always cherries and chocolates. We're all humans.

And when you find yourself in a leadership position or working for an organization that does have most of that - and congratulations and I see your Traction book behind you. We've been using traction for eight years now and I can't say enough great things about that leadership style. That way of running an organization it has been an incredibly useful part of the growth at United Direct Solutions. Specifically and I have to say I think the growth of our leadership team and our ability to manage multiple projects and also understand what everybody else is working on again to that sense of understanding and respecting people's contributions. It gives you a platform and a process with which to make those decisions together and honor and respect other people's work.

[Royce Hall]

Very good. Dayna thank you for joining me today I really appreciate it I appreciate all the insights that you've given me I really appreciate that. Before we jump off here how can people connect with you find you learn more about what you're doing?

[Dayna Neumann]

Absolutely I'm Dayna Neumann that's DAYNA NUMANN as we were talking about earlier and I know you'll find me on LinkedIn I love to do some LinkedIn videos interact with me there and you can find us at UDSolutions.com and I'm always open for a conversation you never know where the next big idea is going to come from. Thanks Royce I appreciate you.

[Royce Hall]

Thank You Dayna